Extracting chips from a chaser, did I scare him off?

[FinalTable]

First off let me say that I'm a beginner at Omaha poker and I'm going to make a few omaha hand post and you all can tell me if there were good hands or bad hands or even lucky hands.

So to start off here is the first hand in question.


I had no time to figure what type of players I was up against other than, that I watch the first villain get caught drawing dead a few times.
I'm sitting at a PL Omaha table with blinds starting at .10/.25 at a 6 man table. I'm sitting two spots behind the dealer. First villain to act raises the call to .85 I call as well as the BB.

My hand is :6d::ks::js::jd:

The flop was :jc::as::4d:

The BB checks and with the pot sitting at $2.80. I'm sitting here with a set of J's. If I'm correct the only thing standing my way right now would be if someone had AA. I put out a bet of $1.33 the BB folds, and get an immediate re-raise of $6.64 from villain 1.

I took some time to think about this, and after waiting about 15 seconds, I didn't think the villain had AA so I re-raised all-in for a total of putting an additional $10 into the pot, risking everything on my set J's.

I know that trips on a flop are not a sure bet. Omaha seems to have way to many outs.

Well Villain 1 folds and I took down the pot right there.

Was I being to risky? I thought my hand was the best hand and I wanted to extract more chips. I thought after the villain put in almost 6X my raise, why wouldn't he call.

Or was it safe to re-raise so much and take down the pot right there?

Here is the kicker...The villain revealed his hand.

I'll post his hand after some thoughts.

[PokerGob]

Well this hand won't end up in the pot control section for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if you told us they had a set of fours. If you've seen your opponent drawing dead a few times, I would think that you could assume they would do it in this spot too.

FinalTable,

Can you tell us how many chips each of you had, before the flop and after the flop. I know you said you were putting it all on the line, but how much did the villain have? This always makes a difference for me on how I play a hand and should also be a determining factor for other GobHeadz too.

[mannyfest]

I think the name of the game in Omaha is making Full Houses and Flushes and it seems almost all flops are dangerous ones in that crazy game. I think I would have done the same thing, I just wouln't have waited so long,

HEY GOB! he definitely showed pocket fours, Yo Gob why are you even doubting it you knucklehead?

11/1 is Gang Up on Gob day!

[FinalTable]

The Villain had $27 before the flop, and I had $18.

I'll go ahead and reveal his hand.

My hand :6d::ks::js::jd:

Flop :jc::as::4d:

Villains hand :6s::kc::4c::5s:

As I was trying to get as many chips as I could on this hand, the Villain didn't want to chase this one and it seems clear that his $6.64 re-raise was a big bluff.

[mannyfest]

They were trying to semi bluff and probably didn't expect a raise again. I think you played it right, I think sometimes you just gotta blow it out and show them you ain't messing around. It's either you go all in there or call an all in on the turn, cuz that's your opponents only move...Gob once told me never be result oriented, the hand iz what it izzz...

[Mott]

They were trying to semi bluff and probably didn't expect a raise again. I think you played it right, I think sometimes you just gotta blow it out and show them you ain't messing around. It's either you go all in there or call an all in on the turn, cuz that's your opponents only move...Gob once told me never be result oriented, the hand iz what it izzz...


i think it is better to go all in then to call all in

[Xxskilled2ownxX]

this was a classic over bet to get you away from the pot, once he semi blufed he set em self up for a reraise by a wining hand. people who dont play omaha think it is like hold em,well its not. and you dont want to push because your trying extract as many chips as you can mott.

[pokergobette]

Hiya FT -

Interesting post here.

I play a lot of online PLO and I have found that pot control is paramount to winning consistently and extracting the maximum amount of chips from your opponents.

In the example you have posted, I would not have raised my opponent back on the flop. I would have gambled that my set of Jacks was the best hand and should hold up against a draw. In this instance the only draws out there were two straight draws.

I like the bet after the check by the raiser. His check-raise seemed like a knee-jerk attempt to get you off your hand. If he had a set of Aces it's unlikely that you would have been check-raised here.

I would not have gone all-in after his check-raise. I would have just flat called it and gambled that he would bet again on the turn. I wouldn't even be concerned with the turn card. It doesn't matter to me what that card is. If it's a :qs: and he has :kc::th:, then so be it. I will have to hope that the board will pair. My only goal would be to get his chips all-in on the turn. And I would gamble that his over-aggression would cause him to make another silly bet, thus allowing me the opportunity to raise him all-in. In this instance I would be willing to lose a big pot, knowing that I have a strong hand that can overcome a straight draw or a flush draw.

I have found that in a lot of cases, your opponent would be willing to call an all-in on the flop with just a straight draw. With two cards to come they believe that the odds are right and even if they aren't they are willing to take that chance. By allowing them to see the turn card, relatively cheaply, you can control the pot. And by putting them to all their chips on the turn with only one card to come, you allow them the opportunity to fold. They could still make the call and often times do, but at least now you are getting your money into the pot with a much greater chance of winning the hand.

It's good to take a pot down early, but if you believe that you have the best hand on a board with very few draws, why not just let the hand develop a bit? Allow your opponents to catch up or give them the opportunity to bluff at a pot. That way you will always keep them guessing and they will only be aggressive when they have a very strong hand against you in a pot.

[mannyfest]

Now that I think about it, I think that efftees image might have alowed him to feign weakness, but seeing the hand that was show do you really think the player would fire a shell on the turn without having Final beat? I'm surprised that the person would make such a bold move out of position without a better hand. Seem like a move that could only really lose...so I don't think you're getting much more than what you got. I suspected a set of fours here and a call. Looked like a one shot attempt at getting Final to fold meaning even if the turn was good or bad, there would be no call.

[hill38]

Maybe I'm just drunk and missing something hear but I keep hearing the term "semi-bluff" here,isnt this a bluff? Wasnt he drawing DEAD to a perfect runner runner board? I love to see the omaha post and opinions though. I am weak in this game but it is a good game for profit because all of the weak players just like me. Would love to learn the game and become a better omaha player so I could get ahold of some of the dead money. I think Omaha is a perfect game for tight, agressive players like myself. Post flop play and the numbers come pretty easy to me but what I would like to learn about is pre flop play and starting hands. If any of you guys could help me out I would appreciate it.

[FinalTable]

Hill38 Did you happen to see this thread? HERE!! (http://www.pokergob.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1859) Jim posted a great thread on starting hands and it does help me a lot. I use this every time.

[mannyfest]

Maybe I'm just drunk and missing something hear but I keep hearing the term "semi-bluff" here,isnt this a bluff?.

There is no way of seeing the player's cards so and they didn't see Final Table's cards, so the player on the small blind here was semi-bluffing that they had an ace or something. The player had a redraw at some craziness like a flush or a gutter straight and if Final didn't have such a strong hand and folded, this player then accomplished a semi-bluff because they had something, but not a whole lot.

Boom I'm the Doc...

[kentucky_jim]

Omaha unlike holdem is less about trying to extract chips unless of course you have the stone cold nuts for the simple fact there is just no hand or draw that is that much better than another remember 60/40 is about it pre-flop. You are wanting to end the hand as soon as possible when you have the best of it. Slow playing in the effort of trying to get somebody to put chips in can backfire on you when you are ahead get as many chips as possible in the middle. Omaha is all about the flop.

[FinalTable]

Omaha unlike holdem is less about trying to extract chips unless of course you have the stone cold nuts for the simple fact there is just no hand or draw that is that much better than another remember 60/40 is about it pre-flop. You are wanting to end the hand as soon as possible when you have the best of it. Slow playing in the effort of trying to get somebody to put chips in can backfire on you when you are ahead get as many chips as possible in the middle. Omaha is all about the flop.

There are so many outs in Omaha and that's why it's so scary. I have been burnt on slow playing my hands in Omaha. It sucks. I have also learn that people will try to buy the pots early with nothing in Omaha cash games, I'm guessing they are gambling on catching on of their outs. Most of the time flush or full house draws!

[kentucky_jim]

There are so many outs in Omaha and that's why it's so scary. I have been burnt on slow playing my hands in Omaha. It sucks. I have also learn that people will try to buy the pots early with nothing in Omaha cash games, I'm guessing they are gambling on catching on of their outs. Most of the time flush or full house draws!


In this game slowplaying is just so dangerous it's just not a good idea. As for people trying to buy pots early alot of times these are holdem players overplaying aces or kings.