Playing JJ???

[Any2Cards]

I have such a damn hard time playing pocket Jacks. I always raise it up 3x the BB i get a couple of callers and then the flop has 1 or 2 overs and I never think im good. I almost feel like i should just always fold these cards. It sucks because it looks like such a great hand but i feel its never good.

[mannyfest]

Yeah man, Jacks are mad tough. When I play Jacks, I raise them pretty much like you do, then try to represent that I hit the flop hard and do a continuation bet. I think they are a pretty easy fold if you get any type of play back, or even a suspicious call. I rarely like being all in with Jacks...they are tough, but they are definitely a hand that a player needs to learn how to play. In the end most of the time, they are just a pair...

[kentucky_jim]

3x the BB or pot sized bet sounds fine but after the flop you got to throw out a 75% of the pot C-Bet to find out where you stand that is if you have decent postion at the table. It has alot to do with your table read also but you got to pull the trigger on the C-bet only way to know where you stand.

[PokerGob]

With any hand in poker, all your decisions are based on the actions and habits of your opponents. Two overs will appear on the flop roughly 40% of the time. Is your opponent or opponents the type who would call a raise with KQ, KJ, K10 or better? Common knowledge states that by raising preflop you start to determine your read. A bad flop for Jacks is not necessarily a flop with two overs, A continuation bet could win it right there and if you're called, you're probably beat. There is never a pure way to play Jacks, but I think making a sensible bet or play with the them before or after the flop is always a good idea. Try mixing your game up, you also don't always have to C-Bet after a flop. checking can be an option too. It can induce a bluff or a frustration bet from an opponent trying to steal or betting what they feel is the best hand.

Like Manny said Jacks are tough!

[Dacooler]

I agree It is a very hard hand to play. If it is a fairly loose table you will get a few more callers then you would like. It is more ideal on a tighter table that way any calls you can be very wary of. If it is a loose table you might have to make a much much bigger preflop raise to really get rid of those loose players. It will of course depend on your read of the player types at your table. In some circumstances I have just limped on this hand because the table was so loose then played different depending on the flop.
I agree with the other replies though no matter what you do a continuation bet can help. Then depending on the action and the player types, possibly a blocking bet on the turn. Some may just be trying to hit their card or if you think they might have the better of it, the block bet will sometimes get a fold or at least allow you to get to the river cheaper and possibly win the hand.
Along with the table player types you will have to know what your image is. If your image is tight you will get more folds or loose the opposite. So play and bet using these factors and the ones above and it will help you from getting creamed on those Jacks not always but it will change the outcome more often then not. Good Luck

Oh yes I posted a hand in another area about folding Jacks in a squeeze, under aggressive folding. Check it out.
http://www.pokergob.com/forums/showthread.php?t=622

Sorry Gob I didn't see your post until I posted mine we must have been replying at the same time. I'll read it now...

Ok I read it. You make great points. I would agree sometimes a check on the flop can be the right play too. You may get out of the hand cheaper then making the standard c-bet then folding. Also it can help to get a read on the table/players left. Also you might get a free card or two and pick up a set. Quoting you "it depends" LOL

[GeekOrNot]

i hate pocket J's! i always lose!

i think next time i'll just call, and hope for a j to drop....

sucka punch em where it hurts!

[PokerGob]

Remember someone raising in front of you doesn't always raise with an ace or an over. My favorite thing about poker is getting a better hand to fold when they are out of position. For example, Pocket Queens raises under the gun and you raise with your jacks. They decide to take a flop by just calling, they're a pretty tight passive player who checks it to you, you can sometimes steal the pot with a good sized bet. Without raising and just calling you may simply have to fold after their continuation bet if you just call, they may have pocket nines or tens and were hoping not to have any callers or see any overs on the flop.

So reraising the right player can add a few moves after the flop and reraising the wrong player could leave you facing an all in.

[pokergobette]

So reraising the right player can add a few moves after the flop and reraising the wrong player could leave you facing an all in.

I agree. Smooth calling with JJ in position can leave you with no option but to fold after the flop - especially with an Ace or other over card on the flop.

You have a lot more "moves" you can make if your opponent just calls your re-raise pre-flop.
I like the cb if the flop is checked to you - even with over cards on the board. However you have to be careful of being trapped and a call of my bet would give me a lot to think about on the turn - especially if the player checks it again to me.

[Kondai]

I think the problem u hated is u can't fold'em .......... think it just u play pocket 33. and doesn't hit set or flop a very drawy board and have a kind of big resistant when bet to other player

[samiulalam]

Yh its always hard when u have JJ, because if people catch a pair of QQ or KK or AA, u lose the hand. So I prefer to raise only 2x and see how many people calls and then raise if in the flop most of the cards are lower than JJ. thats what i would say. but its bad to raise 3x caz u have a very high chance of losing.

[nodelay69]

i limp with jj and if a over hits check it down . been burt to many times ....

[mannyfest]

i limp with jj and if a over hits check it down . been burt to many times ....

Sounds like a great way to play. Limp, check, hope and call, now that's poker!

[nodelay69]

Sounds like a great way to play. Limp, check, hope and call, now that's poker!

ok not in the book but better then losing three time the bb ... and not throwing them away ...

[mannyfest]

What is wrong with raising with the best hand pre flop and then folding it after a bad flop? Just because you go to a flop doesn't mean you have see the river. Raising Jacks allows for you to protect the hand and gives you an advantage to win, if in fact it is the best hand pre flop then you can play it accordingly after the flop. A flop of KQ9 is about as bad a flop for pockets aces as it is for pocket jacks. By limping with Jacks you are not giving yourself a chance to maximize the hands EV potential if you do win the pot. It is okay to raise and fold any hand...

win the most you can with a hand, and lose the least

not

lose the least and win a little.

[kentucky_jim]

win the most you can with a hand, and lose the least

not

lose the least and win a little.
__________________
Dang I like the way you said that. Unless there are raise reraise in front of you you got to play JJ like it is the best hand till you see a flop then you can adjust from there if need be. I don't mind playin JJ you just got to put your thinkin cap on after the flop. JJ is a hand that you need to be comfortable with your post flop play to get the most value out of them.

[mannyfest]

Thanks, and as you described is definitely a good way to play jacks. If the game was as easy as check calling a hand down or just playing when you have the nutz, it wouldn't be much of a game.

[biggtroy]

hey ive been playing them like any other small hand latly and waiting for the flop 9 10 j q ks and most of the time aces usually a hand waiting to get bad beat complete diffrent game online then on a real table at home that is seems small pair always catches and you get beat by the chitest two cards on the table on online play why ? tell me:as::ah:

[PokerGob]

Well it seems that folding hands after a flop is a lost art for some. It is somewhat harder to read a player online because you can't rely on physical tells, it is mostly mathematical and betting patterns. I would suggest trying to control the pot more. This means making bets that are valuable and also bets that enable you to get away from the hand if necessary.

NOT EVERY HAND IN NO LIMIT SHOULD END WITH YOU CALLING AN ALL IN OR YOU GOING ALL IN.

[kentucky_jim]

Yep Gob your right you got to be able to lay down a hand if everything points to you being beat that is what I ment by being comftorble with the post flop game. I guess I should have made that a little plainer in the first post. When your beat your beat get out when things go wrong you never want to compound your problems by giving away chips because you are to bull headed to give up on a hand that has gone wrong.

[brazen5]

Jacks can be a tuff hand to play. Alot needs to be considered chip stack blinds etc. I find its best to call if already raised preflpop. If a low flop hits I usually push very hard if out of position. If in position I make sure to not give the odds for AK AQ etc to call. If the board is scary as in 3 suited cards strate possible etc. I either pump or dump.
In a cash game I always play them for a set no need to take big risks with them. There just Jacks.

[lotsilora]

It really depends a lot on what stage of the game you are in' your position and how your table is playing. Early in a tournament play them like 22. In the later stages play them according to your stack size. If your in position and you have a big stack 3 times the bb raise. If you're shortstack late in a game ALL IN. Any 2 cards your dealt can be turned into winners in the right position at the right time. And any 2 can also turn into losers

[mannyfest]

It really depends a lot on what stage of the game you are in' your position and how your table is playing. Early in a tournament play them like 22. In the later stages play them according to your stack size. If your in position and you have a big stack 3 times the bb raise. If you're shortstack late in a game ALL IN. Any 2 cards your dealt can be turned into winners in the right position at the right time. And any 2 can also turn into losers


I like the idea of playing them aggressively later in a tournament based on chip stack, but I can't just limp with jacks, I'd rather raise and play them aggressively and act accordingly after the flop, turn and river. Folding jacks can sometimes be easier than other hands.

[nikon12]

It think they are way overated just because they are facecards. There are way two many habds that can beat them. I pretty much play them the same as pocket tens

[channing73ny]

i usually lose with jj so im not a big fan of them seen alotta luck with them but i stay away from most all ins with them

[kentucky_jim]

For the player that plays a aggressive style of poker this is a top 5 hand that can be raised or reraised from any postion. I guess it just depends on the type of player you are and what style of poker you are playing at the monment you pick up this hand. Like I said this is a hand for the aggressive style player whitch is the way I enjoy playing seems the game is just easier when you have control of the table my top 5 hands are these.
Ace-Ace
King-King
Ace-King suited
Queen-Queen
Jack-Jack

[Hojediade]

Jack's are good , mostly when played aggresively cause you don't want to have many opponents while playing that hand. So i would probably try to isolate my opponent with a solid bet/raise preflop. Then it would all depends on the board and my read on the player.

[grilldoggy]

Like you said, an overcard comes out on the flop, and you have to get nervous about your pocket jacks. Since you've probably isolated and reduced competition to one or two others, you figure they stayed in because they have a king or an ace, maybe even suited. It's a tough read, and you wonder if a feeler bet post-flop is a waste of chips. If you have a half-stack, and need to double up, Jacks aren't a bad preflop all in.

[PokerGob]

If you have a half-stack, and need to double up, Jacks aren't a bad preflop all in.

True indeed!

[nikon12]

ok this hand always screws me, i think its the most overated hand ever because your chances of winning with it are slim to none if you get any caller, ive almost stopped playing them cause i go out on them a ton

[judson15]

well if you overplay them yah, just try and get in cheep and if the flop sucks just get out of there

[kentucky_jim]

We had another descussion on J's unless there is just raise, reraise in front of you you got to play J's like you got the best hand and after the flop adjust to the board they are a class 1 hand remember. I like J's myself but you just got to be on the money with your post flop play when you have um.

[PokerGob]

Thanks Dacooler,

I merged the threads. Good looking out for the site.

[mannyfest]

Ya know what after reading all the posts here, I'll elect to just push all in no matter what the blinds are and pray.

First hand of the tournament Under the Gun dealt Pocket Jacks...All In! I saw this at Borgata in Atlantic City, after about 30 seconds of thought, the guy gets called by the button, he's holding Kings. The Kings hold up.

I see the guy with the Jacks later on, I asked him "Dude, why did you do that?" He replies, "Fear Equity" I am still perplexed as to what he meant until this day.

[pokergobette]

Ya know what after reading all the posts here, I'll elect to just push all in no matter what the blinds are and pray.

First hand of the tournament Under the Gun dealt Pocket Jacks...All In! I saw this at Borgata in Atlantic City, after about 30 seconds of thought, the guy gets called by the button, he's holding Kings. The Kings hold up.

I see the guy with the Jacks later on, I asked him "Dude, why did you do that?" He replies, "Fear Equity" I am still perplexed as to what he meant until this day.

He may have meant that he expected everyone o fold out of "fear" of busting out on the first hand. Or it's just as likely that he could just be a donk pushing his chips all in blindly and praying that he would be called by 7-2 off...Teehee

[ChipAhoy]

JJ is a difficult hand. They are usually overplayed or underplayed. Actually JJ is stronger than AK as there are only six cards max left in the deck for them to pair. You are not going to win much in this hand, so you want to raise enough to chase most players out, yet small enough not to waste your pile. I would fold to a big reraise. I wouldn't get in a dogfight as there is always the next hand. Folding is free. Losing is not.

[PokerGob]

ChipAhoy,

AK Suited and JJ have a very close expected value. AKs plays better than JJ in multiway pots so raising Jacks as a means of protection, limiting the field and representing a hand of strength are key to winning with them.

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